Curse

zwei2stein · Jun 21, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

You can always just use Spirit's Gift if you want to heal spirits without pve only skills. And have other allies healed as bonus.

Abedeus · Jun 21, 2009, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Okay, bear with me on this one. I've been thinking about 1-man version, since my secondary account still doesn't have Nightfall or EotN.

Ritualist #1 (Hero or Player)

7+1 Restoration
11+1 Spawning
3+1 Communing
the rest into Channeling + 1 + 2

Boon of Creation
Signet of Spirit
Bloodsong
Agony
Pain
Bloodsong
Painful Bond
Flesh of my Flesh

Ritualist #2

12+1+1 Communing
3+1 Restoration Magic
12+1 Spawning Power

Boon of Creation
Anguish
Shadowsong
Union
Shelter
Spirit to Flesh
Reclaim Essence
Flesh of my Flesh

Necromancer #1

10+1+1 Soul Reaping
8 Communing
12 Restoration Magic

Spirit Light Weapon
Mend Body and Spirit
Life
Spirit Life
Recuperation
Recovery
Signet of Lost Souls
Flesh of My Flesh

Necromancer #2

12 Healing Prayers
10 Protection Prayers
10+1+1 Soul Reaping

Word of Healing
Dismiss Condition
Protective Spirit
Patient Spirit
Signet of Lost Souls
Aegis
Cure Hex
Resurrection Chant

Whot you thinks.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 21, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Looks good, one thing I would consider as pve replacement would be a technobabble caster with the extend conditions? I believe that was one pve build. Or perhaps just 1 save yourselves spammer and then 1 assassin's promise nuker to be able to keep up the hexes/ conditions. I don't really know if the enfeebling blood and 1 hex will keep the discord going much as it is right now. I almost wonder if you could find a better elite to use on the necromancers. Jagged bones or something may be a better replacement just because I am unsure how much damage the discord will really be doing if there aren't that many hexes/ conditions on targets.

Perhaps run 1 aura of the lich (if the hero will use it besides on recharge) and 1 jagged bones could keep up the army even better than if you were to try and force discord? Like I said I don't know the damage output being done by the discord necromancers.

It just seems that if it's not that much a bigger and better wall would make a death just about impossible if you can raise an army in 1 skill and have minions coming off them as they die.

And obviously if 1 human can go /rt and bring summon spirits you'd be able to bring most of your spirits with you already set up and ready to at the very least take some damage during a new group. Have a feeling the optimal setup for 2 humans would be a MoP n/a nuker along with save yourselves spammer. If it's really instead an easier place you could just go with another form of high damage dealer.

I was looking at ghostly haste but realized it did 25% quicker recharge for spells instead of binding rituals. A shame cause that could have helped replace reclaim essence.

Arkantos · Jun 21, 2009, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

A-ha! Thats the trick! Decent AI

My suggestions: Spirit's Gift is too great heal to ignore, I would replace instances of Spirit to Flesh for it, and ideally put it on Signet of Spirits hero. Purely because it can heal union/shelter/displacement.

Seccond Sprot Spirit on Necroes can be replaced with spirit bond (be thematic, damnit!)

I would stay away from preservation; you also miss Wanderlust (which I suggest as replacement) ... which is quite awesome when subduing enemies.

The thing with spirit's gift is that the heroes use spirits right away, so it will be healing when there's virtually no damage being done. Spirit to flesh is a 212 health party heal, and can be used when needed.

As for wanderlust, it would have to go on the communing ritualist, and seeing as it has 3 45r binding rituals, I'm much rather have reclaim. It allows you to go attack the next mob instantly with your spirits up.

Quote:

Looks good, one thing I would consider as pve replacement would be a technobabble caster with the extend conditions? I believe that was one pve build. Or perhaps just 1 save yourselves spammer and then 1 assassin's promise nuker to be able to keep up the hexes/ conditions. I don't really know if the enfeebling blood and 1 hex will keep the discord going much as it is right now. I almost wonder if you could find a better elite to use on the necromancers. Jagged bones or something may be a better replacement just because I am unsure how much damage the discord will really be doing if there aren't that many hexes/ conditions on targets.

Hmm, for some reason I thought putrid bile was AoE. Humans should try and run asuran scan and another low recharge condition, although enfeebling blood + shadowsong should be good enough.

For human builds, I'd say a standard AP caster and a physical with SY would work very well.

Abedeus · Jun 21, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I was thinking about getting a better Necromancer elite. Can't say Heroes use Spirit Light Weapon well... I'll try Jagged Bones and Aura of the Lich tomorrow.

Also, about Summon Spirits - they work only on yours, not your allies'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

As for wanderlust, it would have to go on the communing ritualist, and seeing as it has 3 45r binding rituals, I'm much rather have reclaim. It allows you to go attack the next mob instantly with your spirits up.

I agree, I used to take Wanderlust a lot, but it's just too slow. I mean, usually it dies very fast and attacks slowly, so those knockdowns don't really benefit you that much. Reclaim or SoS is better.

Arkantos · Jun 21, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I was thinking about getting a better Necromancer elite. Can't say Heroes use Spirit Light Weapon well... I'll try Jagged Bones and Aura of the Lich tomorrow.

Also, about Summon Spirits - they work only on yours, not your allies'.

I agree, I used to take Wanderlust a lot, but it's just too slow. I mean, usually it dies very fast and attacks slowly, so those knockdowns don't really benefit you that much. Reclaim or SoS is better.

Yeah, JB/AotL are always good choices. And yeah, personally I don't think wanderlust is worth it. It's a shame that summon spirits doesn't work on allies spirits, would save 2 elite slots.

Anyways, I've changed some of the builds around, updating OP/PvX.

Beren985 · Jun 21, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

What about Weapon of Quickening instead of Reclaim Essence? It can be cast on all the spirit spammers, freeing up the other Reclaim slot for a different elite, and provides more dynamism to the party if the long recharge spirits die at the beginning of the battle.

Arkantos · Jun 21, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beren985

What about Weapon of Quickening instead of Reclaim Essence? It can be cast on all the spirit spammers, freeing up the other Reclaim slot for a different elite, and provides more dynamism to the party if the long recharge spirits die at the beginning of the battle.

It would have to go on the communing rit, which means I lose signet of spirits. It could go on a reclaim rit, but then they have to spec into communing, and it only opens up 1 elite slot. It also doesn't recharge the spirits fast enough. The point of reclaim essence is once the enemies are dead, the majority of your spirits will be recharged and you won't have to wait between mobs.

Also, I've removed shadowsong and res on the communing ritualist for unuion and armor of unfeeling. With 14/13 split and armor of unfeeling, union will last for about 45 hits (~675 damage reduced).

PS: Need more votes on PvX, plz <3

MercenaryKnight · Jun 21, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

I was just going to add that if you don't need remove hex (which is kind of a lackluster spell). Since if you deal with hexes in an area you'll most likely need a lot of hex removal otherwise just ignore and heal through them. You might want to consider replacing 1 hex remover with dwayna's sorrow for a moderate heal as minions are dying. I know it's completely overkill but imo I would rather keep getting healed excessively than having a hex removed.

Or if you desperately need hex removal I would suggest making them both convert hexes. That would be only if you knew you would need to go in a hex heavy area. I just don't like single hex removals. Most of the time you'll either be affected by weak hexes which do nothing and not very many of. Or a lot of deadly/ annoying hexes where a single remover skill (even on 2 heroes) won't be enough.

Especially if your running either aotl on one and jagged on the other (or incase aotl isn't used well by heroes) dual jagged bones necromancers. Even once the initial wave bombs and dies you'll still have an army up soon enough and so you will get a decent heal when in the middle of a battle.

I really want to try this for grand court of sebelkeh. Very close quarters tons of defense and offense should make masters a breeze in hard mode.

You could even use something such as life sheathe on your minion bombers if you needed a good consistent condition removal. Since their main purpose is bone minions and death novas the elite isn't required and very easy to change to the situation at hand. Seems that the minion bombers will be very versatile.

Just curious, any idea for some collectors/ weapon crafters/ greens to suit these up with? I am looking on wiki and see a few collector's but items aren't as easy to farm up for. Also wondering about the communing rit to have a spear instead of a wand. Wouldn't a spawning power wand with recharge for the reclaim essence be better? Or were you equipping the spear so the hero would attack more and get the spirits to attack.

Arkantos · Jun 21, 2009, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I was just going to add that if you don't need remove hex (which is kind of a lackluster spell). Since if you deal with hexes in an area you'll most likely need a lot of hex removal otherwise just ignore and heal through them. You might want to consider replacing 1 hex remover with dwayna's sorrow for a moderate heal as minions are dying. I know it's completely overkill but imo I would rather keep getting healed excessively than having a hex removed.

Well, it all depends what you're playing against. Two copies of remove hex isn't going to get rid of every hex, but it's better than letting every single hex stay on you. As for dwayna's sorrow, the necro attributes are already spread thin enough. There should be no need for the additional healing.

Quote:

You could even use something such as life sheathe on your minion bombers if you needed a good consistent condition removal. Since their main purpose is bone minions and death novas the elite isn't required and very easy to change to the situation at hand. Seems that the minion bombers will be very versatile.

2 copes of mend body and soul, 14 spirits. I think it's safe to say this build already has way more than enough condition removal.

And tbh, the main purpose of the necros is both the minions and discord. With discord, minions and spirits, you have the ability to make foes melt like an ice cube in an oven.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 22, 2009, 12:53 AM // 00:53

I am just curious how much damage the discord is really doing. They will be casting minion spells, protective spirits, death novas and aegis a lot of the time. It doesn't seem like they have the time to get in more than a few discords if any depending on ai at situations. From just an outlook of it it doesn't seem like much of the actual damage will come from discord. In use it may pan out differently but that is just my look on it :P.

And also, taking 1 point out of protection (which will only cause 1 second less on protective spirit) will give you about 5 points to put into healing for dwayna's sorrow. Most likely for me I may opt out a remove hex for it, since most areas I plan to take over don't have very many hexes.

When I go out and use this build my main focus will be to see how frequently the discord necromancers cast discord. If they don't cast it much I may be better off using jagged bones or aotl for more minion walls. But time will tell and I love the look of this build.

I think if your a warrior dragon slasher you should try bringing a small level of command and bring go for the eyes. Now it has no recharge and you can spam it for minions to get extra critical hits. Depending on areas where minions can get in a few good hits may want the ebon vanguard ward inorder to see some extra bonus damage.

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I am just curious how much damage the discord is really doing. They will be casting minion spells, protective spirits, death novas and aegis a lot of the time. It doesn't seem like they have the time to get in more than a few discords if any depending on ai at situations. From just an outlook of it it doesn't seem like much of the actual damage will come from discord. In use it may pan out differently but that is just my look on it :P.

And also, taking 1 point out of protection (which will only cause 1 second less on protective spirit) will give you about 5 points to put into healing for dwayna's sorrow. Most likely for me I may opt out a remove hex for it, since most areas I plan to take over don't have very many hexes.

When I go out and use this build my main focus will be to see how frequently the discord necromancers cast discord. If they don't cast it much I may be better off using jagged bones or aotl for more minion walls. But time will tell and I love the look of this build.

I think if your a warrior dragon slasher you should try bringing a small level of command and bring go for the eyes. Now it has no recharge and you can spam it for minions to get extra critical hits. Depending on areas where minions can get in a few good hits may want the ebon vanguard ward inorder to see some extra bonus damage.

Heroes generally don't use animate/death nova until after the fight, so there are no worries there. They will use ageis once. They will also not use PS a lot, seeing as most of the time your team is going to be taking very little damage. PS is really an optional slot, I just use it as a 'oh shit consistent damage' button. They will be using discord the majority of the battle.

Dwayna's sorrow is really unnecessary, if you want to take it you can. And yes, we were running go for the eyes.

As for JB/AotL, they really aren't adding much compared to discord. As long as the enemy has a condition and hex, the heroes will use discord.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 22, 2009, 04:08 AM // 04:08

I am curious, for areas with no corpses or very few what would be a good idea to sub out for the discord necromancers? Perhaps 2 RoJ smite support monks instead that can still chain aegis?

Lord Of Blame · Jun 22, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Tried this build tonight and it's nasty, just nasty. Super effective. Goodbye Discordway, Sabway, whateverway...........Great job.

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I am curious, for areas with no corpses or very few what would be a good idea to sub out for the discord necromancers? Perhaps 2 RoJ smite support monks instead that can still chain aegis?

Not sure how effective RoJ is anymore, the AI in hard mode should now be fleeing from it. To be honest, I haven't really thought of builds to replace the necros in areas with little corpses, but anything with good offense and protection should be sufficient. A spiteful spirit necromancer should do pretty good, though.

Quote:

Tried this build tonight and it's nasty, just nasty. Super effective. Goodbye Discordway, Sabway, whateverway...........Great job.

Thanks.

MercenaryKnight · Jun 22, 2009, 04:51 AM // 04:51

I am trying this build with 2 roj protect variants in hm hell's precipice. No save yourselves is causing problems but RoJ still does decent damage. Most likely a form of Spiteful Spirit necromancer with VoR mesmer with interrupts would probably have been a better choice.

It worked decently with RoJ a few deaths because of an over aggro of sparks which would have been avoided if I had brought a save yourselves spammer build. You can still use an AP caller with RoJ. I would suggest ice imp, pain inverter and vanguard sin so you can pain invert, then send in sin to knockdown as heroes hit RoJ.

Sub-Zero · Jun 22, 2009, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Lol i just made a rt n i didnt know what build i should b going for cuz rt's are a fun underated class,
This will be the first thing i try, i hope this doesnt become meta and rts get nerfed haha

Ariena Najea · Jun 22, 2009, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Arkantos, fenix, I am disappointed in you!

Bring Signet of Ghostly Might somewhere (player bar is best for Rit primaries) and go to town with Arcane Mimicry on the heroes with offensive attack spirits.

Abedeus · Jun 22, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Could you give some suggestions about my 1-man version? Obviously the healing N/Mo can be replaced by a human or hench, but maybe we could work out some decent build.

fenix · Jun 22, 2009, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Not our fault

We were somewhat limited by both running Warriors as our primary characters. If we had been using a Rit each, the build would be LITERALLY unstoppable. As Warriors we have a couple of weaknesses that wouldn't come up as a Rit.

Any other caster would also have big advantages, but of course it varies depending on your playing style.

Signet of Ghostly Might would definitely be a great elite to put in, if you have a Rit primary, or can comfortably run /Rt builds.

EDIT:

Working on it Abedeus, going to do some testing asap.